Comments on: Apple Gathering FaceTime Information, Ability To See Video Calls

By: custom baseball jerseys

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By: BiligetOX

BiligetOX — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 04:49:35 +0000

First off a to use Outlook to access corporate or misc. emails requires a actual MS Exchange Server. There’s plenty wrong with this “source” and his “genuine” e-mails. Now I don’t doubt that this guy may work for apple as his e-mails seem to fit apple’s templates. Personally all I think of these pictures from a out dated exchange server. Is that this guy simply forwarded before editing from his internal email to his exchange email. There is many technical and logical problems with what this guy is stating. Brian covered a few, yes there is a SMS that apple receives when first Activating FaceTime but it’s mainly used to add a certificate to your iPhone. I don’t doubt that they don’t check compatibility before before doing the OTA, but that’s as far as that mist likely goes. The SMS after initial activation is for handshaking purposes. How is the other phone you are calling suppose to know your IP. There is someone out there that has created a app to send you this same cert. It activates FaceTime on unlocked and unofficial carriers. The rest us device to device how is this proven well let’s just say a friend of mine unlocks and jb’s many iDevices and second I know for a fact as I have personally seen it. That a unlocked, jb and FaceTime activated iPhone4 has been exchanged with apple for a replacement. For as long as I have known him he has exchanged many jb iDevice via Apple store and Apple care. As long as your not ignorant enough to walk into the Apple store with your jb device wide open with many unpaid apps they really don’t care. Another way of testing this is if you have a iTunes account and you bought some apps and have also dl other apps threw installous or downloads threw your pc. Goto your purchase history it will show you not only the apps you have bought and the price but it will also show you all the other apps you have dl threw other methods with a price of $0.00. Bottom line they don’t really care. If it’s your personal device there not going to use any of there recourses to get you. Now maybe hypothetically let’s just say you use one iTunes account on 50+ device then you’ll raise a flag. I have even read somewhere that on some photo of steve jobs somewhere speaking publicly that he was running a jail broken device, don’t know how true that was but I doubt he’s using a stock iPhone with DRM, contracted GSM or there 3G data.

That’s that if they wanted to intervene they have had many years to do so. It’s really about sales and until you touch there wallet anything goes.

By: FERNANDO NASCIMENTO

FERNANDO NASCIMENTO — Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:03:46 +0000

My iPhone gets the “video_pulls_sw” and “FaceTime activation pending” messages. The SMS serevice provided by my carrier works fine. I can send and receive SMS even to and from abroad. I don’t know what to do. I have tried everything. Any clues?

By: James Wright

James Wright — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 11:56:01 +0000

Are you serious? Corporate messaging for Apple employees occur on “personal Microsoft Exchange Servers” that they run? I hope you know how untrue that sounds. Apple does NOT use Microsoft Exchange Server for a messaging solution for any Apple employees. Look up Apple’s DNS records. List the MX records and see what type of SMTP service they use for email. It’s not Exchange. It’s a doctored image if someone is telling you they work for Apple and they are using Exchange for employee communications. Period.

By: Nakodari

Nakodari — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 11:38:29 +0000

Apple does not officially use it but this, along with many other employees do. The employees do not live in jail, they have freedom to use whatever they want.

By: James Wright

James Wright — Fri, 09 Jul 2010 11:35:27 +0000

This is all BS. Apple does not use Exchange for email. Check yourself. Look up Apple’s MX records and then Telnet to port 25 and see who answers. Lol. It’s their flavor of an SMTP server. This entire article is made up. It has wasted 10 mins of my life I’ll never get back.

By: FaceTime call over AT&T 3G, no Sprint, no tether, no iPhone 4 Jailbreak — methodicjon

Thu, 08 Jul 2010 04:41:20 +0000

[...] SMS isn’t a factor on the iPhone 4 once you have done the initial FaceTime registration. AddictiveTips has a post talking about SMS and FaceTime. My findings seem to conflict with what was reported [...]

By: FaceTime Sends Anonymous info to Apple | AppFaction

FaceTime Sends Anonymous info to Apple | AppFaction — Tue, 06 Jul 2010 17:43:40 +0000

[...] http://www.addictivetips.com/mobile/apple-gathering-facetime-information-ability-to-see-video-calls/ [...]

By: Apple

Apple — Sun, 04 Jul 2010 16:31:45 +0000

there is an opt out:
oo.apple.com

By: Rob

Rob — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 15:19:44 +0000

I call FUD. Why the heck would you use Exchange to ‘Manage’ your emails? That’s what Outlook is for.

By: Rob

Rob — Wed, 30 Jun 2010 06:23:51 +0000

I have to say…It wouldn’t be too hard to fake a good e-mail on the computer then take a pic of it. In other words…yes, the meta-data may say the pic is from an iPhone….but who’s to say the data on the actual computer screen is valid??
Also, why would Apple use a Microsoft server? Don’t they have their own?

By: Apple Collecting FaceTime Location & Pushing iPhone 4 OTA Updates on AT&T?

Tue, 29 Jun 2010 19:01:49 +0000

[...] so just be aware of what’s happening in the background.[via AddictiveTips - First 'Leak' and Followup]Subscribe to our RSS feeds. You can also follow our official Twitter account @macstoriesnet.Share [...]

By: Nakodari

Nakodari — Tue, 29 Jun 2010 06:32:46 +0000

Not at the moment, except that iOS 4.1 is coming out this week: http://www.addictivetips.com/mobile/iphone-4-ios-4-1-fix-reception-issue-antenna-band/

By: Nakodari

Nakodari — Tue, 29 Jun 2010 06:32:21 +0000

Microsoft Exchange is used by this employee to manage some of his emails. It is not used by all Apple employees.

By: The Patri0t

The Patri0t — Tue, 29 Jun 2010 06:19:35 +0000

Any more updates about this?

By: John Smith

John Smith — Tue, 29 Jun 2010 04:40:36 +0000

What I find most hilarious is that if that screen shot is really a true image of the e-mail client Apple uses for internal e-mail, then they are using Microsoft Exchange server as that is the Outlook Web Access version for Exchange 2003. WOW!

By: DraconianIphoneUser

DraconianIphoneUser — Mon, 28 Jun 2010 00:51:19 +0000

If apple wants to be draconian then they can say goodbye to there market share. And I will will say hello to Android.

By: Elizabeth

Elizabeth — Sun, 27 Jun 2010 01:00:14 +0000

Anyone can claim that they have information that proves confidentiality but can’t be shared. And when I see someone claim that, I just think it’s SO convenient for the author of the article. Unless you have information that can be publicly shared that proves this guy is a legitimate source, I personally will never believe you.

By: Enquanto não chega a Revolução – Weekly News #4 – Vigilância e privacidade; ACTA; Google; Echelon « O Vigia

Sat, 26 Jun 2010 18:05:28 +0000

[...] by Apple!!! Mais grave é ainda o rumor que dois artigos de um blog trouxeram a público. O blog Addictive Tips colocou online dois artigos baseados em informação que um suposto insider da Apple divulgou sob [...]

By: Nakodari

Nakodari — Sat, 26 Jun 2010 10:52:59 +0000

Your opinion seems to make sense and I am inclined to agree with you. I will show him your comments and reply with what he has to say regarding this.

By: Ali

Ali — Sat, 26 Jun 2010 10:30:31 +0000

Please do tell what he has to say about my post. Also, to the author of this article, if you are technically inclined, tell me if my theory makes more sense than this guys “conspiracy theory”.
One last parting shot at this guy (it just makes me mad when people go around acting like they know what they are talking about when they clearly don’t) iPhone agents are a dime a dozen. Although some dimes are shinier than others (some are more qualified than others in my opinion), this guy makes up a work force of thousands. No “leak” will ever come from a support agent. They are NOT in the loop. If you were talking to someone who was in the iPhone hardware/software dev team, that would be more credible.
Let me highlight how uninformed this guy is. He states he was told by facetime support “the way facetime works is it has to be on a WiFi signal and a SMS signal as well so the other person can receive your facetime invite.”. He then states that this is “Untrue” and “The person will receive your facetime via phone call your currently in asking if you would like to connect via facetime, The SMS is so apple can tag team into your information.”

Do you remember the old modem days? When you had to dial in to your ISP? Do you remember how you could just pick up the phone and talk to all your friends while your computer was connected to your ISP? Ofcourse you dont, because that was impossible. You could either transfer data through your phone line or talk on the phone. You could not do both at the same time.
Same thing applies to cellular phones. If you are on a phone call with someone, you are using the voice part of the network (not the data part). You cannot send data through this stream. If you are talking to someone you cannot just initiate a video chat through the phone call like he states. The only way this would be possible is if the request goes through another stream. Thus the SMS. I am not going to go on about the basics of network technology anymore (yes these are basics). This guy is actually creepy in my opinion. Hes using his “credentials” to fool everyone into taking him seriously. I am surprised hes in tech support considering his aptitude. Then again, hes probably one of those Knowledge base guys. Not a true tech.
Ok I am done. Articles like this where people have no clue about the subject matter just get me all worked up. So I apologize if I was a bit harsh.

By: Nakodari

Nakodari — Sat, 26 Jun 2010 10:30:28 +0000

I have to agree with you. The source I contacted is more like an end-user (Apple Support staff) but knowledgeable about few things except how the internal communication works. I have a report with me which has been done by an engineer, perhaps that will explain how the information flow works. Will post it up as soon as possible (waiting for permission).

Thanks for leaving an insightful comment!

By: fail

fail — Sat, 26 Jun 2010 10:04:26 +0000

The SMS is send when two people connect, so this is not one SMS, these are multiple SMS that will be send based on how many calls you have made. Every time two people connect over FaceTime, an SMS is send.

No, it's not. Ask your friend to consult TS3367, the relevant part of which is:

To activate FaceTime, iPhone sends an SMS message to Apple registering your device in the FaceTime database. If you encounter issues activating or using FaceTime: Verify that your micro-SIM card is inserted, and you are connected to a cellular network. Verify that you can send SMS messages. A valid SMS messaging plan is required to activate FaceTime. If you encounter issues sending or receiving SMS messages, see this article for more information. Toggle FaceTime off and on in Settings / Phone / FaceTime. SMS messaging is used only during first-time activation or after restoring the iPhone 4 or swapping micro-SIM cards.

You can believe that's authentic or not, but at least it clearly supports the claim I'm making; I'd love to hear any support for claims to the contrary.

Apple themselves say that the SMS contains the location but provide no further information.

Where do they say this? Got a link?

About the encryption of the iPhone 4 video call, Apple uses Vanilla unencrypted STUN and SIP. More information will be provided shortly.

This is disingenuous. STUN is a way of establishing a connection between two hosts behind NAT; once you're done you end up with a way of sending stuff over UDP. Data is never encrypted at that level; it's simply a way of piercing firewalls. SIP is a way of signalling call connection and hangup and is deliberately designed such that it is separate from any actual streams. The technology you're looking for is SRTP. Reference: WWDC keynote.

By: Ali

Ali — Sat, 26 Jun 2010 09:58:30 +0000

It could just contain the IP address of the iPhone sending the text so that the other iPhone can make a connection to it over the internet. “Facetime” is more than likely a webcam application for the iPhone (like iChats video conference feature). It would need a direct IP to connect to. Or atleast a mediator (a server in the middle) to send the communication back and forth between the two devices. This would be more secure since the other party would have no means of collecting your IP address. On the computer when you video conference, the other computer already knows your IP address or your computer sends it over the internet through the webchat server to the other user. On the iPhone, if you are at home on WIFI, the other iPhone has no clue about your iPhones IP address. The only way I can see it communicating this info is through an SMS. Unless they had a chat feature which lets you see your friends “online”. That would enable it to send a video conference request through the chat server (which both users are logged into thus it already knows both users IP address).
Having said that, I have worked for the company as well in the past and this guy seems like hes a legit Applecare employee (with the terminology he uses). However, Applecare employees have limited knowledge on the iPhones actual inner workings. They are more like end user troubleshooters. Some of them are extremely good with computers and technology in general, some of them are just regular folks who follow knowledge base articles to the letter. They do not have any “inside info”. Only a handful of people have the inside info and you never come across them really. Most of them are in Cupertino to begin with. This guy is probably seeking his 15mins of fame. I would take everything he says with a grain of salt. The email he sent you a picture of is not as “official” as it looks. Its probably an email from the management at the site he works at detailing the fix for a common issue everyone is encountering. If Apple really wanted to collect user information, there are a lot more subtler ways to do that. Like trojans, backdoors etc.
If you have not guessed yet, I am an advanced computer user. Probably a lot more advanced than this guy. He does not understand the technology and hes jumping to conclusions.
Well, I dont want to sound like a fanboy (cuz really i’m not, I own 0 Apple products even though i worked for them in the past. Well make that 1 product as someone recently gave me an iPod nano since I lost my old Creative MP3 player), video chat is a first as far as phones go in the US. So I can understand why this guy is having trouble understanding how it works.

By: NTN

NTN — Sat, 26 Jun 2010 08:31:54 +0000

As for me, this is still a rumor, whether this is confirmed or not. On the other side, Apple did made his backdoor because the iTunes and iOS4 have this nice line that could be used in trial to help Apple get out of “if any” trouble.

Anyone skilled enough to listen to the carrier traffic and capture sms messages to see what’s inside? AFAIK messages are not encrypted anyway and this would be THE proof.

By: Nakodari

Nakodari — Sat, 26 Jun 2010 07:04:18 +0000

Thanks for leaving an insightful comment. The SMS is send when two people connect, so this is not one SMS, these are multiple SMS that will be send based on how many calls you have made. Every time two people connect over FaceTime, an SMS is send. If you are outside the SMS range, then you will receive an error and will not be able to talk on FaceTime even though the WiFi signal is excellent. Does other popular 3rd party services requires you to send an SMS when video chatting with them?

The best way to check this is to test it out yourself.

Apple themselves say that the SMS contains the location but provide no further information. The source simply says that the information is more than location and he has seen it first hand, but getting it is impossible but he is trying. The traffic may not pass through Apple Evil Wiretapping servers but they have the ability to monitor the calls.

About the encryption of the iPhone 4 video call, Apple uses Vanilla unencrypted STUN and SIP. More information will be provided shortly.

By: fail

fail — Sat, 26 Jun 2010 06:46:10 +0000

This is all great, except for the fact that none of the "proof" you are giving actually pertains to the claims you’re making. You keep throwing up evidence that your friend works for Apple — okay, maybe, once he makes up his mind what part he works for — and that FaceTime requires SMS to work — okay, that’s pretty clear. You’ve offered no support for the actual accusations you’re making, things like "FaceTime is unencrypted" and "Apple is performing ‘server updates to see peoples Facetime’". Instead, you offer meaningless drivel about who pays for a single SMS and iAds. How about this: When you activate FaceTime, your iPhone generates a private key / certificate and sends it to Apple (over WiFi), along with an SMS to prove your phone number belongs to you. Every time you call someone using FaceTime, it sends a request (over WiFi) to an Apple "invitation" server, which sends a push notification to the recipient’s phone, causing their phone to display the incoming FaceTime call screen. Once they accept, their phone connects to the same invitation server, and Apple gives each phone the other party’s IP address and encryption certificate. The phones then communicate directly using STUN, TURN and ICE to open the channel and SRTP to provide encryption and authentication for the conversation. Sorry to burst the conspiracy bubble — there’s no location data going to Apple (beyond the IP address), and none of the conversation traffic passes through Apple’s Evil Wiretapping Servers. Instead, you’ve got one SMS to link a phone number to a key, and a handshake for each call to pass keys and IP addresses to the other party. At some point I might have thought your friend was just confused, but at this point it’s clear that he’s just setting you up to look stupid for having fallen for his crap, and everything else he told you was a lie.

By: Nakodari

Nakodari — Sat, 26 Jun 2010 06:27:56 +0000

He has answered your questions. Check the update!

By: Nakodari

Nakodari — Sat, 26 Jun 2010 06:25:30 +0000

Just asked him, he says “If you try to call to another phone which does not have facetime, then the call is dropped”. In the screenshot you can see the error, not call drop.

In short, this message is not displayed when you call another phone that is not an iPhone 4. The call is simply dropped.

By: Doubter

Doubter — Sat, 26 Jun 2010 06:16:46 +0000

The last image showing the error message with FaceTime. What number is that? Definitely not the Apple FaceTime number. That message would also display if you called any number that was not an iPhone4. FAIL!